Why You’re Sleeping Like Shit with Abby DesJardien

Julie: 00:00:00

We spend about a third of our lives asleep. We all know that sleep is essential. It's as important to our bodies as food, water, and exercise, and it's vital for maintaining good mental and physical health. So then why aren't we prioritizing sleep in our schedules? Welcome to episode 42, where I am joined by sleep evangelist, Abby Jaz, Darden to tell us how we can all start getting a better night's sleep. This episode is sponsored by Nickerson, a full service branding, marketing, and PR and communications agency with team members in Boston, LA, Miami, and New York city. Visit them@nickersoncos.com. Has this happened to you before? You go to bed. You fall asleep easily, but you awake in the middle of the night for me. It's usually around two o'clock. I look at my watch and say, shit, my alarm is going to go off in just over three hours. I have to get back to sleep. Then I proceeded to lay awake in bed, stressing about how much sleep I'm not getting. While I lay there awake, shitty thoughts will inevitably enter my mind. Stuff from years ago. That has no bearing on my life right now. But for some reason. I'll start obsessing over something. I said to someone like in high school, or I won't be able to stop thinking about some stupid thing I did on another day. And before, you know, it hours have gone by. And I don't fall asleep until about 17 minutes before my alarm goes off. And then I have to start the day. Exhausted. If you read my book, you know that I've done all the things that you're supposed to do in order to have a better night's sleep. I don't have a television in my bedroom. I don't have screen time in my bedroom. I read an actual book before bed. I have the right color lights in my bedroom. There is no blue light to be found at all in my bedroom. And I do not have caffeine in my diet and yet one or two nights a week. Sleep will simply allude me. I know how important sleep is. I've read all of the studies that suggest that lack of sleep has been linked to a higher risk for certain diseases and medical conditions. These include obesity. Type two diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, stroke, poor mental health and early death. But obsessing about how much sleep I'm missing while I can't get back to sleep. Isn't helping the matter either. This is why I've asked Abby to join us today. Abby is asleep evangelist who believes sleep is an act of self-empowerment. She teaches entrepreneurs, how to transform their businesses and their lives through the power of sleep. She's the host of the things that keep us up at night podcast and she is here to help us all. Get a better night sleep.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:03:13

Abby, thank you so much for being here.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:03:17

I feel like you were describing my past life when you were giving your backstory.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:03:22

So tell us about that. Tell us how you got started as a sleep evangelist or what was, what happened to you that made you be like I'm going to get some more sleep?

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:03:31

So I. Previously had been in a dysfunctional relationship with sleep for my entire life. I remember as far back as being a toddler and having trouble sleeping, I was the kid that would be put to bed in my own room and then end up in my parents' bed. Um, I had to sleep. with my light on, I had night terrors every night for years.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:03:59

are night terrors?

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:04:00

Oh, gosh, night terrors are kind of like nightmares, except you appear awake and you can be walking around and doing things and you are in your nightmare and they can't wake you up. Like you are having a nightmare saying, mom, mom, mom, and she's standing right in front of you, but you're not, not there.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:04:24

Okay.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:04:25

Um, so I had those for years

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:04:29

you want make you want to not go to sleep?

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:04:30

exactly, exactly. Although I never remembered them. Which was odd. My, of course my parents remembered them every night. That went away as I got a little bit older and then I just. I always had so many thoughts at bedtime. And so when I got into my teenage years and was busy with school and work and extracurriculars, it was like, well, if I can't sleep, I might as well just stay up and be productive. And so that was the mentality that I adopted in my teens. And continued through until my thirties, until my body, you know, my body was giving me clues all along. I would push through all sorts of things and then I would get really sick and just be laid out in bed. And I had this pattern of continuing to do that. And then I just finally hit a point where I was so sick that I couldn't keep doing that. So I. Decided I had to figure out what was going on with my sleep, because I, I knew after trying everything else, gluten-free car, low carb, all the exercise, all the things. Right. And none of it worked. None of it made me feel like I thought I should be feeling. And the only piece that I hadn't addressed was sleep because it seems So impossible. Um, so that's when I really dove into figuring my own sleep out. When I came out of that, I looked around and realized that every woman that I know our goals with sleep, especially the entrepreneurs. They are all the things in their business. They are doing marketing and accounting and they are the face of their business. And before you know, it, you're working like 15 hours a day when the whole, you know, drive behind starting was so that you can have more control over your day and you control when you're working and how you're working. And, Oh, I can accomplish this and this much time. And so I'll have all this other time in the day to do all the other things that I want to do. And then you're working. Way too many hours before you know it and back to sleep deprivation. So that's, the backstory on how I got into really talking about sleep and, pursuing my certification as an adult sleep coach, because we have sleep coaches for kids. That's a thing that everybody knows and accepts, but. So many of us have not been taught how to sleep or taught to prioritize, sleep, and it's a skill that you have to learn.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:07:06

Yeah. Is it true that adults need seven to eight hours of sleep or do some people need more and some people need less.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:07:15

So the general rule is seven to nine hours. but there are people who are going to need more sometimes, you know, if you're sick, I don't know that you can get too much sleep at that point. You just listened to what your body's telling you. And then there's a small group of people, five to 10% of people who. Usually, and this is all kind of anecdotal from other sleep doctors and sleep scientists. There's this whole group that the insomniacs would usually fall into that actually don't need seven hours. They need more like six and a half or six hours and 45 minutes.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:07:54

Okay.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:07:55

And the danger for this group is that we do have this message coming at us all the time. You have to have at least seven hours. And like you said, you get in this loop where people obsess about how much they sleep. And it turns into this vicious cycle because it keeps them awake. And then they're beating themselves up about not getting enough sleep and thinking about how they're going to feel tomorrow. And while it's important to be aware that sleep is important and it's important to do things, to prioritize, sleep obsessing about it in the moment is not going to help anything.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:08:27

Yeah. So I feel like I, I didn't grow up with this idea that you have to get seven or eight hours of sleep at night I grew up on this hustle, mentality and sleep when you're dead kind of thing.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:08:41

Yes. And that is, so that is a attitude held by our society. Right. We have that piece, but then there's the other camp that, that has done that and realizes they need sleep. And then it tends to be overly focused on, right. So it's about striking a balance between those two, about making the effort most of the time to prioritize, getting enough sleep, realizing that there will be times where. You're going to go out and see friends and stay out a little later, or there are going to be a night, a few nights, probably a week. Like you said, where maybe sleep. Isn't going to be as great, but you have to

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:09:28

do in that moment? That moment though? For me, this is what happens. We're recording on a Thursday, Monday. I woke up at two o'clock. I didn't get back to bed. What, um, Tuesday I had a good night's sleep Wednesday. I woke up at two o'clock and couldn't get back to bed. So I sit there and I obsess about how much sleep I'm not getting in the moment. So is there, are there tricks? Like I can prioritize, sleep all I want, I go to bed at the same time. Every night I wake up at the same time every morning. I know that that's part of the rule, but what can I do when I'm laying in bed saying, fuck, I cannot get back to sleep.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:10:04

Yes. So the first thing is, and it's easier said than done. So you have to start out by just saying it. Um, I get another chance to try to sleep again in about 16 to 18 hours. This is just one night tomorrow night. I get to try again. That's the first thing. So really being kind with yourself, the second thing is that. You can't lay in bed and obsess about it. If you are awake for more, you know, it's 15 to 30 minutes. If you're awake for longer than that, get yourself out of bed, go do something, you know, reading something calming, obviously not like turning all the lights on and doing something active and getting your heart rate up. but you know, To an audio book or something like that until you feel tired again, then when you

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:10:56

we share beds with people. So like, I feel, I feel like I can't, like there's only so much I can do. If you share a bed with your husband or your wife or your partner or whatever in the middle of the night,

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:11:08

well, but I mean, leave your room.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:11:10

Yeah. Okay.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:11:10

Yeah. So like physically take yourself Because what you're doing when that, when you stay in bed and you're not sleeping and you're obsessing, right, you are creating this mental relationship. You are teaching your brain that when you get in bed, it's stressful and you can't sleep. You're reinforcing that, that belief in your head. And so it physically connects, like when you get into bed, it's not a sleepy cue. It's a panic cue.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:11:39

Because I do get into bed now and I say, God, I hope I slept

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:11:42

Yes, exactly. And so we have to undo that and retrain it, and we do that by physically changing the surroundings. So that truly the only things happening in your bed are sleep and sex. Those are the only things.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:11:57

Well, I've had that line a lot, like, and when we started, when we took the TV out of the bedroom and change the lights, we said the bedrooms are for sex and sleep and that's it. And truly, I mean, and I do read a real book before I go to Tibet, but I do believe that, but it hasn't helped me sleep through the night.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:12:18

I think you must be it. It just must be that second piece and it will be, it's not an immediate fix. It takes time, right. To change that association. But over time, the time that it takes for you to fall back asleep should lessen the time that it takes. If you do have to leave the room and go do something the time that it takes for you to feel sleepy again, will lessen. Once you go back into bed, the time that it takes to fall back asleep should get shorter over time. If you commit to doing that consistently, when you run into that

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:12:52

Okay. How much of the way we sleep is biology versus, what we're putting in our body and our surroundings.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:13:00

So I don't think you can say definitely like certain percentages, but for example, if sleep apnea runs in your family, chances are, if you have two parents and two siblings who have sleep apnea, chances are you probably have it too. and that if that is left untreated, that is a very serious problem. Long-term If you are concerned that that might be an issue going to get a sleep study is a really important first step, because it can tell you a lot about your sleep and what's going on while you're sleeping.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:13:33

What's involved in a sleep study.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:13:35

So you now there's actually two different ways to do it. These days. They have what's called an at-home sleep study. And, that actually is. If you have a chest strap, that's measuring heart rate, your breathing rate, you have a pulse oximeter that goes on your finger that measures your oxygen levels throughout the night. Um, it's not quite insensitive as going to do a full sleep study. like at a sleep lab, but they often use it as a screener. so that's entryway. So then the next step, if it's results are inconclusive or if it shows like you definitely have sleep apnea if it's severe enough to show very clearly on the at-home test, a lot of times they'll bring you in for, A test in the it's called a lab a lot of the time, but it's actually like a little hotel room. It has a bed, it has a bathroom and the technicians they put wires all over your body. Your head. Your legs, you have straps everywhere, and it seems like you wouldn't be able to sleep, but you actually do sleep. I've had a couple of them and they measure your oxygen, your breathing, they measure whether your legs are moving at night, cause that's another form of a sleep disorder. Um, and so they measure all those things. And with that information, they can tell you difficulty sleeping or the fact that you're always tired is due to a sleep issue, like a medical sleep issue or whether the issues you're having with sleep might be related to something else, like choices that you're making throughout the day, your behavior throughout the day.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:15:17

Yep. Um, Oh, I, I am lucky. I do not snore it. My husband does not snore, but I know people who literally say they can't get a good night's sleep because their partner keeps them up at night snoring. Okay. What one thing is there, there isn't a cure for snow or starring? I don't think, but I'm hearing more and more about couples who are deciding to sleep in separate bedrooms so that they can get good. Night's sleep. Like what's your thought on that?

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:15:45

That's called sleep divorce.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:15:47

Slipped divorce.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:15:48

Yes. And you know what I think that it depends on the couple, right? So for some people, the act of sleeping in the same bed is, is really important to the relationship. It's like a large part of their intimacy. however, if your partner snores, first of all, they need to go get a sleep study because not doing so and leaving that untreated longterm has very serious long-term health consequences. If they have sleep apnea and that's the reason they're snoring, which it usually is a C-PAP actually does stop the snoring.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:16:23

Okay.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:16:24

So that's the first thing. Second thing is if one or both of you is not getting good sleep, your relationship's going to struggle anyway, because when you get shitty sleep, you. Have crazy emotions and you're quick to snap and you're not your best self. And so I would just, I would challenge that idea and see if you're both rested in bringing your best selves into your interactions with each other. I think that is so much more impactful than whether or not you're sleeping next to each other at night. If you need to be separate, be separate and find other ways to connect.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:17:02

One thing I want to ask you about is I tend to have stress dreams. And these dreams are they're reoccurring in the sense that it's always the same theme. It's, I'm trying to get to the airport and I can't fit all of my stuff in my luggage. Like I can't get it in the luggage. I can't sit the luggage and I know that I'm going to miss my flight or. I'm 45 years old, but one of my stress dreams is that I can't find my classroom in like on campus. And these stress dreams happen over and over and over again. And I'm exhausted if I wake up in the morning after I've had a night filled with stress dreams, I'm exhausted.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:17:47

Yeah.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:17:48

So, do you have any advice for people? And I know I'm not the only ones cause I talk about it to my people. I'm like, Oh, I have the suitcase dream again last night and people have their own version of stress dreams.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:17:59

Yeah. So it's funny because we do things that we can ignore throughout the day, our brain, you can't totally race it. So our brain waits until our conscious mind is no longer online to try to process those. Right. I don't think there's necessarily. A secret to that. I think that continuing to do what you need to do throughout the day to complete the stress cycle. So, you know, when you have stressful things are not going to stop happening. That's just the reality of our lives. Stress can actually even be good for us at a certain point, if we know how to deal with it, yeah. So, there are lots of things that we can do to complete the stress cycle. I, I don't know if you've read Emily and Amelia Nagasaki's book burnout, highly recommend it. It is a fantastic book. It talks all about the stress cycle. What happens when we're in the stress cycle? What happens when we don't complete the stress cycle and get the stress out of our body? Basically, the foundation is we have our fight flight freeze reaction to stress and, thousands of years ago, that's what kept us alive. Right. If, if you're being chased by a lion or a tiger, your body just clicks and overdrive, all sorts of systems turn off. So other systems can turn on and you can run and get out of there. And the problem is that our brain has not evolved along with our society. And so we're not getting chased by lions most of the time anymore. But yeah, body doesn't know the difference. Our body perceives our brain and body perceived those two things as the same thing. So we have to learn how to process the stress because in the, in the lion example, the very act of running. Is completing the stress cycle. So it's no longer in your body, Right. You had that reaction, you decided not decided your body decided I need to run the act of running completed this stress cycle. Now we sit at a desk all day and stare at a computer.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:20:12

And we just absorb

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:20:13

Exactly. We just keep more and more and more and more and more until our body breaks down in some way. Right. So you can, physical movement is one way to do it and it doesn't have to be intense, like kill yourself at CrossFit type movement. It could be a 10 minute walk.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:20:33

Yep.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:20:34

Just something that feels good to you. Um, any sort of creative process. So writing, painting, drawing, journaling, um, Creative we'll do that. I'm laughing, but it has to be real. Laughter it can't be like the ha like I, I, should laugh at this. So I'm going to, it has to be like actual, genuine. you actually think something is funny. Um, social interaction. So being with friends or family and that's been a weird one for the last year,

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:21:09

sure.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:21:11

like on your, on your podcast recently, where you were talking about how do we socialize with people? Again, this is so weird. and Let's see what else? Uh, physical affection. So, the Gottman's, they are world renowned. Um, Mental health professionals that focus on couples and relationships. And they talk about what's called the 22nd hug. And basically the act of hugging somebody for 20 seconds releases all sorts of the really happy, good chemicals in your brain. So that. actually can help I should say that they also studied a six second hug because 20 seconds felt really long to people

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:21:53

I, you know,

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:21:53

and, uh, the six seconds.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:21:55

I was thinking like I'm a hugger. I, anybody who knows me knows I'm a hugger. And then I was like, 20 seconds seems excessive.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:22:05

Yeah. And so that was kind of the reaction that they were getting when they were studying this and having people do that. so they kept shortening it and saying okay. w how short can it be to get a similar benefit from it? And so, alternatively, they came up with six seconds. So even a six, second hug can be beneficial. So something to keep in mind, not everybody's a hugger and that's why there's all these ways to do that

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:22:32

So if you're having a sleep divorce hug your husband for between six and 20 seconds

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:22:37

then go to your own bed.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:22:38

bedroom,

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:22:42

Exactly. That's a great plan. The last way to complete the stress cycle is breathing. And we hear a lot about breathing. So there are all sorts of guided meditations that you can do. They're also just simple. Um, you know, there's one called the four seven, eight breath where you breathe in for four, you hold it. for seven and you breathe out for eight and you do that a few times, and that actually regulates your whole system. So there's all those little behavioral things throughout the day that can really impact it. The other thing that I would look at with regards to the stress dreams. So yes, stress existing in your life is probably contributing, but what else is going on on those days? I know you said you don't drink caffeine, but did you have a glass of wine at dinner?

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:23:33

Oh, I probably had to.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:23:34

There you go. So start, start to. pay attention to some of those other things, maybe cause that, you know, even one glass

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:23:42

I also, I think because I'm 45, I think I'm starting to go into pre-menopause so I think that has something to do with it as well.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:23:52

So I would say that, um, pre-menopause and menopause is. The time when people that have never had sleep issues before experience, you know, insomnia for the first time and they are just like, Oh my God, you have got to help me. And what's hard about that timeframe is that it's so related to your hormones, that. know, we can do all the behavioral things we want, but some of it is not in our hands at that point. And that is the time to really lean into the, I get to try again tomorrow and it's going to be okay tonight. And I'm just going to get up and do this other quiet activity for a little bit. because medicine is hasn't really. Figured out how to help with all of the impacts of those hormonal swings during that.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:24:52

So because you brought up medicine in a different way, you're talking about medicine for hormones. What are your thoughts on sleep medicine like ambient or something like that?

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:25:04

I should first start by saying I am not a sleep doctor. I am not a medical provider. I think that. For a lot of people who have chronic sleep issues, who've either never experienced a good night's sleep, or haven't in a long time. I think that certain medicines, when worked very closely with your doctor, I think they can be a gateway to help release some of that anxiety around the idea of sleeping, like helping you start to believe that sleep is possible again. I definitely think that? in certain situations it can be a great short-term solution like I said, the bridge or the gateway to what. comes next. Right. And helping you believe that you can get there. As someone who was on Ambien, long-term probably 15 years ago, 10 years ago. I can say honestly, for me, given my experiences, I would not take it again. Even if I hit a really rough patch because it knocks you out, but it It doesn't give you restorative sleep.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:26:13

yeah. and there's so much research now being done into all of the things that happen in our body when we're sleeping and there's studies with correlations between how much normal, regular sleep you get and Alzheimer's and dementia. And so not all sleep is the same.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:26:30

Exactly. Yeah. So like I said, I think that it can be a good short-term solution while you're working out the rest of it. Like what, what kind of routines do I need to adopt? Do we need to address any other medical things going on? Because things like diabetes, heart disease, all of those other things can impact your sleep as well. so sometimes when you manage those underlying health issues, your sleep improves as a result of that. So, sleep, can feel like such a big thing and it is, but a lot of times it is a clue to something else.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:27:10

So I'm a big napper. I love me like a nap, so I'll go to the mountain on Saturday and I'll ski from like eight 30 to, you know, Three. And then I'll immediately go home and take a hot shower and take a nap. Like an I, I like I'm a child. I look forward to like my afternoon naps on Saturday and Sunday. What are, what is the thought around napping in? Is that good for your sleep or is it bad for your sleep?

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:27:43

So the answer as so many answers are, is that depends.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:27:47

Hm.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:27:48

If you are someone who can nap and has no trouble maintaining your sleep schedule and no trouble going to sleep, no trouble staying asleep, go for it. However, if you are someone that does have trouble going to sleep or staying asleep, then I would. I would re-examine that. And maybe try not napping, even though it's going to feel hard at first, because it's probably a habit That's pretty ingrained. what happens is we have what's called a sleep drive and it is the thing. It's the reason that we feel more awake in the morning. And as the day goes on, we get sleepier it's because while we're sleeping, our bodies going through all these processes that you were talking about. When we wake up, we have a chemical called adenosine and it's one of the chemicals that makes us sleepy and it's at its lowest point in the morning. And as the day goes on, it's like filling up a bathtub. Right. So you're filling up as you're going throughout your day. The longer you're awake, those levels are getting high, higher, and higher and you hit a certain point, the full point that's when you get sleepy enough to fall asleep, right? When you take a nap, it's like draining part of the tub again. So you're starting back, you know, not full. So then you're having to work back up to that point again, before you can actually fall asleep.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:29:12

That's so interesting.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:29:13

So if you nap and then you can still go to bed at night and get a good night's sleep, not an issue, but if you are someone that struggles with what people would call insomnia a lot of the time, it's probably good to consider trying not to do that.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:29:29

So I think we've covered a number of action items, which, and it's great. I mean, it sounds like there are so many things that affect your sleep that may be, if we just. Tweak one or two things. We might be able to find a better night's sleep. But if people do this, they tweak a couple of things and they still can't get a good night's sleep. How do you work with people on getting a better night's sleep and how can people work with you?

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:29:56

I'm an adult sleep coach. And what that means is that when people are having sleep issues, they come to me and we work through what might be going on. So we collect a health history. We collect a daily diary of what they're doing throughout the day. Cause there are little things that people might not be connecting that are actually contributing to the sleep issues. However, if there are signs or indications that there might be an underlying medical reason for these things happening in that instance my first step is to refer them to a sleep medicine doctor because. If it's a medical cause nothing that we do together is going to eliminate the problem. The behaviors might help a little bit, right? Because it's usually an interplay between, what's happening physiologically with our bodies and what we're choosing to do throughout the day. So it could improve a little bit, but it's not going to eliminate the problem. So if it's a person that doesn't have any underlying medical conditions We do an intake where we go through their health history, go through and I have them keep a journal where they track their sleep, all the things they're doing throughout the day, what they're eating, what they're drinking when they're doing it, it's it's involved because there are so many little things throughout the day. That could be a root cause. and so we work through that and a lot of times you just, you need someone that's not in it. To help you see some of the things that might be contributing because when you're in it, it feels hopeless. So a lot of the time, and so I guide people to identify things that might be causing it and then help them come up with a plan to manage that, change it and see if that works. Sleep it's so individual. And so what works the first time for one person doesn't necessarily work for the next person. And so it, it tends to be a process instead of just an instant solution.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:31:58

If people want to reach out to you, they can find I'm going to put a link to your website they can follow you on Instagram and they can also listen to your podcasts, things that keep us up at night, anywhere else they can find you.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:32:12

My website, my podcast, Instagram, those are the three main places.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:32:15

All right,

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:32:16

Yeah.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:32:17

Abby. Thank you so much for being here today. This was wonderful.

audio_only_16780290_Abby_DesJardien: 00:32:21

Thank you so much, Julie.

Julie: 00:32:27

Do you want to hear something crazy and I'm a hundred percent not fucking with you. I have been sleeping like a baby ever since I had this conversation with Abby. I really haven't done anything different other than when I go to bed. I'm not saying to myself over and over again. Oh my God. I have to get a good night's sleep. I hope I get a good night's sleep tonight. I'm not getting into bed obsessing about if I'm going to wake up at 2:00 AM and not be able to get back to sleep. I think the most freeing thing she said during the entire conversation was if you're having a shitty night's sleep, it's just one night. You can say to yourself, I get to try to have a good night's sleep and another 16 or so hours. That seemed to make a shift for me. I never realized how tense I was every night, going to bed anticipating having a restless night's sleep or a night filled with stress dreams. I know you have them too. I mentioned the suitcase one and the campus one, but there are other ones that I have. I especially hate the ones where I'm having problems with my teeth. Like sometimes I'll have a dream that I have a loose tooth. And I can't stop playing with it. And then eventually that tooth falls out. I hate that one. Have you seen my mouth? I have a huge fucking mouth. There's no hiding a loss tooth. Even though I know it's just a dream, it's still freaks me out. Like Abby said, difficulty sleeping can be a manifestation of a number of different things in your life. And lack of sleep can be a vicious cycle in our brains and in our bodies. Sometimes we need to do some digging in order to peel away the things that might be the root cause of us not getting a good night's sleep. If you're having trouble sleeping, I encourage you to check out Abby's website. I'm not saying that just the quick conversation we had together, turn my sleep around, but there is no denying. That I have experienced multiple nights of uninterrupted sleep just by changing my attitude during my nightly ritual of getting to bed. And remember. The bedroom is for two things. Sleep. And sex remove all the other stuff that is vying for your attention in cluttering, your bedroom. Now Abby was all like, don't drink wine before bed, but I'm like, what if I drink a soothing camomile, lavender, hot toddy before bed? What would you say about that? And it could work right now, still, even though it's made, there's still a chill in the air at night. I grew up on hot toddies. Whenever we were sick, my Nana will boil some water and combined it with a wee DRAM of whiskey, add lemon and honey, and give it to us. I hated it. I hated the taste. I mean, what nine-year-old likes whiskey. But it always did the trick. And if by the trick, I mean, it knocked us clean out and she didn't need to hear us complain for a few hours about being sick. Then yeah, it did the trick. But I will, I will say we always felt better when we woke up. So. Here is a recipe for a relaxing camomile, lavender Tati. You're going to need one cup of water, a teabag of cam melty. Some culinary lavender buds. I get them out of my garden. But you can buy them. At stores. One tablespoon of honey. Two ounces of whiskey and a lemon wedge for squeezing. Here's what you do. You combine the water, a teabag and lavender buds in a small sauce pan over medium high heat. Bring that to a boil, then reduce the heat to medium, low and simmer for like three or four minutes. Um, and then you strain that you take the T back out and then you strain the lavender buds out. So in a mug, you stir that strain tea, and you add the honey and the whiskey and you finish it with a squeeze of lemon and you enjoy it. And then you tuck your ass in a bed for a good night's sleep. All right, friends, as I say every week, please like subscribe and rate and share with your friends. I appreciate you being here. If you want more, Julie Brown, you can visit me on Instagram at Julie Brown underscore BD, or you can check out my book, This shit works. On Amazon or Barnes and noble, or you can simply come back here next week. I will be waiting for you. Until then. Cheers.