UnFollow Your Passion with Terri Trespicio

Julie: 00:00:03

We are constantly being told to pursue our passion in all aspects of our life, from our careers. To our relationships. And frankly, This advice is total shit. Because what if we don't know what our passion is, and then this not knowing becomes a source of stress and anxiety. Welcome to episode 59. I'm your host, Julie Brown. And today I am joined by my friend, Terry SPCO. To discuss her upcoming book. And follow your passion. This episode is sponsored by Nickerson. A full service, branding, marketing, and PR and communications agency with team members in Boston, Los Angeles, Miami and New York city. Visit them@nickersoncos.com. My husband's childhood friend, Kevin was the best man at our wedding. Chris and Kevin met in grade school. Within the paragraphs of his best man speech. Kevin talks about how Chris always knew that he wanted to be an architect. How he had started drawing houses when he was seven and he was good at it. You might go so far as to say that being an architect is not only my husband's passion. But something bigger. It was his calling. I've always said that I'm jealous, envious, even over the fact that my husband had a tether to his passion and a straight trajectory to becoming an architect. From such a young age. You see. I didn't find my passion. The thing that I know I'm supposed to be doing until I was like almost 40. If I had listened to all the self-help books and graduation speeches about searching for my passion, I might have missed it. Because it wasn't there yet. It hadn't been fully formed. Because I discovered my passion while doing other things. Looking too hard or forcing our passion into existence only serves to camouflage the things that actually matter to us. My friends. You are in for a treat today. Terry is not only my friend, but she is a sought after speaker and brand advisor. Her Ted talk, stop searching for your passion has been viewed more than seven. Million times. She has appeared on the today show. Dr Oz. The early show, the Anderson Cooper show she's been in Oprah magazine. Business insider forbes.com and inc.com. And today she is here with us to talk about her upcoming book. On follow your passion, Terry. Welcome and thank you for taking the time to talk with me.

Terri: 00:03:12

So excited to be here.

Julie: 00:03:14

Just jumping right into it. We all know from a very young age, one of the first questions you're asked as a child is what do you want to be when you grow up?

Terri: 00:03:23

The worst question ever.

Julie: 00:03:25

worst question ever. I mean, and so from a very young age, we're conditioned to think we're supposed to have this figured out. We're supposed to know what we want to be. Cause that's what people keep asking you. Why is that? Why is it, why do we do that?

Terri: 00:03:37

I think we don't have better questions to ask. I think we're, it's a very unimaginative question. I think it's meant with the best possible intention. Like, oh, well, what can you imagine doing? But the fact that. You can't imagine what you haven't even come close to yet. Well, what do people say? They want to be an astronaut, a princess or a firefighter. I mean, like, what do we go by? I mean, that's fine. That's not the big problem. The problem is as we get older, you know, when I talked to 21 year olds, for instance, or even 26 or 30 year olds, they're like, I don't know how I'm supposed to be doing it. I'm like, Hey, nobody knows. No one knows,

Julie: 00:04:12

right.

Terri: 00:04:13

you know,

Julie: 00:04:13

I've always said that. I think it's, it's almost detrimental that we go to college at such a young age. That you're you're, you're supposed to like pick a major and I think you said it in one of your speeches, it's like, you feel like you're picking your major for life. Like, and we're doing it at such a young age when we haven't experienced enough, maybe to even know what we should be doing.

Terri: 00:04:34

I mean, education is something we were lucky to have if we can have it, but we don't appreciate it until later when we go, oh my gosh. Imagine if you could go back now and pick classes, you'd be like, I want to take that. I'm going to take that. But the idea in my mind, the way I. Cause I was in school, like loved school. I just really loved being there. It was the only time I really knew what I was doing. is I think it should be seen as a kind of foundation setting like college and education is a rule is meant to teach you how to think, how to ask questions and how to form a habit for learning. Unfortunately, we just check the boxes and go, when can we get the hell out of here? because we were bored by it or, whatever, you know, the fact that. We're not supposed to know. College is not meant to be job training and it's really, a flaw of the industrial revolution. If we're going to really get serious about like, you've got to train for a job, what is it? In fact, you know, of course, education sitting in school for hours a day as little kid. We were being trained to sit still. So we could work in factory jobs. I mean, that's where education comes from. It doesn't come from, like, let's get curious about our futures and how we might manifest abundance. That's not what schools should be, but it's not, it's not.

Julie: 00:05:50

And I think like it, there's so many things you just can't learn in school. For me, for what I do, I always say nobody goes to college and gets a bachelor's in whatever they're doing in a minor in networking, you know, but that's what I do for a living. Like I could not have gone to school for what I did.

Terri: 00:06:10

No, of course not. There's no major in networking, right, This is a skill that unfortunately, maybe we're not taught early enough to do well, but we shouldn't be. So we can either pick a fight with all the things we should be taught also how to manage money, how to there's a million things we're not taught that would set us up to be more effective, happier, successful adults. It sucks that we're not, but that's why we were never supposed to stop learning after college or after high school, here's men to keep learning. And we think that will, when I'm done with learning, then I'm going to start living. No, we know that the fun part is when you keep living and learning and getting curious about what's new. You didn't know at 20 you're like, oh, I'm going to be a master networker. And she feel like saying content producer. When I was in college content, as a term did not exist, there was no job. I would have loved the job of content producer. That shit didn't exist in the nineties. You know what I mean? So no, some things that you might end up doing don't even exist yet. That's the good news, but the question about picking a passion and that comes later, this there's the, what job are you going to do? Which is limiting. And then there's this very facile. Self-help or professional advice. It's like follow what you're passionate about. The sentiment is not bad, but there, I'm not talking people out of following their passions. Like your husband, like someone who grew up playing the cello and still plays the cello for a living. Those people are not. Going to be mad at me because that's like saying, how, why are you selling band-aids but I'm not bleeding. It's like, well, they're not for you. If you're not bleeding, band-aids are for people who are bleeding when you're bleeding, look us up. Uh, but this whole struggle and the reason why that Ted talk did so well and continues to do well is because that doesn't solve the problem for most people. They don't know exactly what they're doing or what they're supposed to be doing. Like you said, what was I meant to be doing? I cannot stand that language because it presumes there's one answer. And you know, it just is not the case. Let me say one thing. Passion because people think I don't like passionate. I'm in fact, fairly passionate as a person. This is not me, anti passion. And you should just be stoic all the time and have no emotions. Passion is wonderful. It's also not special. It's human. If you feel passion, you probably feel it in ebbs and flows and it arcs and it SOPs and it lights up in certain times and then goes away and others. And let's just start from this story. Uh, democratic foundation, no one wouldn't choose passion. No one doesn't want to feel that way. But passion itself is a shifting living thing. And to assume that you're doing life wrong because you don't know what you're passionate about. It's like saying you're bad at eating because every couple of hours you're hungry again. That's how it works.

Julie: 00:09:00

Right. Yeah.

Terri: 00:09:02

Well, we don't see it as that passion sort of just something that moves through us. Like all other things like hunger, like arousal, like fear ideas, not to just pick one emotion live that way. That's not what life is. It's certainly not what work is.

Julie: 00:09:15

I think a lot of people think, well, number one, maybe they're supposed to find their passion, but maybe their passion is supposed to find them. Like it's a call that's going to happen. and you have to pick up that

Terri: 00:09:24

might feel it that way you were called some people it's the language you use. Do you like the term calling? Do you Julie, like that term, have you felt it? Cause I don't want to tell you not to use a word that you like, but.

Julie: 00:09:36

Yeah. You know, it's funny that you should ask because I, this thing happened with my mother-in-law recently where I hosted, well, it wasn't recently, it was mother's day and I hosted mother's day and I put on this big thing and, you know, food, like I cooked everything from scratch and blah, blah, blah. And she said to me, she goes, oh, Julie, you missed your calling. And I

Terri: 00:09:53

Oh,

Julie: 00:09:54

no, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. Hosting brunch. Wasn't my calling. Like, I'm pretty

Terri: 00:10:00

Yeah.

Julie: 00:10:01

owning my company and teaching people how to be networkers and change their careers. They're never, I'm pretty sure that's what I'm supposed to be doing.

Terri: 00:10:09

see that's, that is a thing about callings. We often talk about callings when we're describing what someone didn't do.

Julie: 00:10:17

Yeah.

Terri: 00:10:18

like someone said to me, not that long ago, like, oh, you're so funny. You missed your calling. You should've been at comedian. I was like, I kind of am. I don't make my living as a comic, but I do stand up. I have done it. Uh, I enjoy it. I've studied the craft of it. I've written and performed it and I've entered contest and been a finalist. That's about as much as that is in my life Right. now. And it's not figuring in all the time, you know, like, why aren't you doing this? And that comes by the way. One of my favorite authors there's Austin Kleon of steal, like an artist fame says this is a real problem in our culture where as soon as someone shows a proclivity for a flare, for something, we say, you should be doing that for a while. No, Julia, you're not supposed to do mother's day brunches for living. You were supposed to do brunch for mother's day. Cause it was a great thing to do. And I'm sure you're wonderful at it as you are wonderful. Lots of things. That's my point is that you don't just have one it's that struggle. This idea that we're supposed to have one, you have lots of passions. I know you love to drink and travel.

Julie: 00:11:22

I know you love to drink.

Terri: 00:11:24

I love. I know, but you haven't, I don't mean like Drake, you love, you have a flare for cocktails and like travel. And like the, when I hear about the things you were doing And love to do, like we're going to Grenada, we're going to The Bahamas. I'm like that bitch knows how to live. Like, I love that. And, and that's true. Like, but you wouldn't go live a passionate trouble, I guess I should maybe be a travel. blogger. Maybe you shouldn't. Because if you had to write about every trip you went on, you might start to hate writing and you might start to hate travel. So, uh, Austin clan says. Keep something for yourself that you don't have to turn everything into a job and I could not agree more. So that idea of like what I'm passionate about baking. So I should have a cupcake shop. How do you feel about running a store? Because whether it's cupcakes, underwear, or sneakers, you're going to now live the life of a store manager, which is not the same life as someone who likes to eat a cupcake and who the hell does.

Julie: 00:12:14

The things you love, as soon as you start making them, your job or your half dues, it changes the way you feel about them. For sure.

Terri: 00:12:23

Right. And so like enjoy a lot of things. I do a lot of things. You do a lot of things, this idea that there has to be one. Now people tend to talk about that when they realize how goddamn unhappy they are, where they are right now, that's something to listen to. And I loved your interview with ONJ. I think her name was. Intuition. If you know something doesn't feel right. That's not the same as passion., like I said, if I use this example, if you scrambled some eggs for me, and I said, Julie, these are the best eggs I've ever. What the hell are you doing with these actual guy? I don't know. No, no, no. These are the best eggs I've ever had. I'm going to tell everyone and people like how much you want for those eggs. I'll give you $10,000 for those eggs. What do you mean? I'm telling you you're doing it like no one else. You would all of a sudden get very, you would lock down your recipe. You would, you would sell it. And if you were making millions off your scrambled eggs, you would be pretty damn passionate about eggs for awhile until he got bored.

Julie: 00:13:19

Okay.

Terri: 00:13:19

But like we can get the passion is not the topic or the major or the job or the title or the money. The passion is, oh my God. I did things that contributed someone, wanted what I had. I mean, it's a kind of a sense of connection and love even that was that feeling passions that were, that has become this professional term, but it's actually quite personal.

Julie: 00:13:41

I heard you give a speech once. And when you said, when you are doing things you're passionate about, that is when people. Connect with you and they pay you for your passion. That is what we want. We want to feel good about what we're doing and what we do helps other people. And Hey, guess what? We also make a living off of it.

Terri: 00:13:57

Why you make a living as a speaker, people watch you speak and they go. We want, we want that. We want that energy. We want that person. Can we have her in our event? And then, then they want you, it's not because, well, why'd you hire Julie Brown. Oh, because she's passionate about speaking. No, we saw her. She was goddamn amazing. And we want to hire, by the way, Julie Brown who's available for gigs. You should contact her PR person. Um, but do you see what I'm saying? Like in the same reason people hire me too. They see me somewhere. They go, okay, good. That's What we want.

Julie: 00:14:24

What is your advice to somebody who just feels stuck? Like, I feel like I've done everything I was supposed to do. I went to school, I

Terri: 00:14:32

Oh my God. Okay. Roll over and die. If you're done with everything you're supposed to do, then you should just roll over and die. And that's what I don't get that finality life is long. Find something to do and don't try to pay me. Don't go. If you're like. I hate numbers, I guess I'll go be an accountant because I know you do things that are appealing, but you do them through. I am. I'm always doing this. Like, do I like doing this or do I really not? I'm not trying to pick a lane, you know, fine. I'm a brand advisor. It means everything and nothing. I know what I'm good at. And I can spot the kinds of opportunities that are things I would do. Well. Where have you done something where you felt really good about it? In fact, I encourage people. Journalists to write it. And I lead lots of writing workshops where I help them use the page for this reason. What is it that you felt so good about? Maybe just think about the job you have, maybe something you're doing recently. Don't think about the job and the title in the committee. What was one thing you contributed? You're like, I felt so good about that. And it was the most random thing was a fundraiser we were doing. What is it about that thing? Where can you do what felt good about that? Where can you offer that to other people? Where can you offer it to other parts of your job? Where can you. Finding places where you get into your sweet spot and you have more than one, but I want to take issue with this stuck thing because, I don't think it's super gendered, but I don't hear a lot of men saying their stock. I hear a lot of them. Women. And maybe because I'm around women more and I'm talking to women more, but this idea of stock, I understand it. But when we say it, it becomes real because you're like, I'm just stuck. Are you stuck or are you in a pause and are you going to just kind of hang out and lay on your couch and stare into space for a while and think about what's next? Well, I tell people when we're writing, when you're writing things out and trying to write to understand your own thoughts, I say, if your pen is moving, you're not stuck. If you're getting up and you're showering and you're eating, you're taking care of your general health and hygiene, you go to a job. You're not actually stuck. I am very worried. About this idea that we're buying into that like, well, I guess I must just be stuck right now because sometimes they get me too. I'm sorry, everyone stock are you. It's Okay. to have a pause. This idea that everyone's just living their best life and like having this great time. And it's a thrill a minute when you pick your passion, it's not true. You're a human on a planet that's boiling to its hottest temperature of all time. We're under considerable pressure. We're in a pressure cooker. And one of the great, uh, this, this has been a shit year. We all know this. One of the things that has come out is this, as they're saying the great, what are they getting off? The great recession, the great departure.

Julie: 00:17:16

Yeah,

Terri: 00:17:16

resignation. where people are going, what am I doing? What am I doing? It's not that they're stuck now. They are. Are you shifting gears? If you're shifting gears, are you stuck? Are you shifting gears? So be wary of that story. Um, one of the things about being stuck, if you are curious, if you are. Leading with curiosity and wondering, well, what if I did that? What if I did that? When people, I will emphasize, I hear this more from women than men. Think why shouldn't do that, or that would be crazy. They throw down all the walls. If I said, well, what if you consider that? No, no, I can't do that. How about I a million things? And you wonder why you're stuck. You put yourself in a damn cage, you did that. So if you say, well, what if, what if, when you say what after things, and you're curious about it, you start to open some doors. And a lot of people are afraid to get curious because, well then what if I did that? What would happen? Who would I be? Yeah. that's scary, but it sure as shit isn't stuck.

Julie: 00:18:13

One thing I, one line you had from your mom that I loved, and I, I'm not sure I'm going to get it right. Is she said you don't design your life and then live it. You live it. And it is being designed as you want.

Terri: 00:18:24

Well, yeah, well, that was in the middle of my serious depression. Like we are depressed in post-college depression where I really was just at a temp job and called my mother every night crying. And I wouldn't even be like, hi mom, I'm having a hard day. Like I just called her she'd answer and I would just burst into tears. Um, just like heaving sobs, and she just listened and she, and I, she said, why don't you get a job? And I said, but I can't. Because then if I get that job, if I get that job, then I'll be stuck in that job. What if I don't like it, then I kick it out. I had this all whole made up story about it, and I said, but I might not want that job. And she said, you do not, plan your life and then live it. Oh, no, she, you don't create your life and then live it. Yeah. Created by living it. You won't know until you get, get moving and take a job. So I took like a job as an executive assistant and it was the moment things started moving forward. It didn't matter. I wasn't passionate about being an executive assistant. I wasn't passionate about what they did at this company, but those people were kind brilliant people patient, and they wanted a young person. To answer the phone and do the PowerPoint like, and I was like, Okay. And then all of a sudden I had people who said my name everyday were waiting for me, had jobs for me to do. I had new challenges. It doesn't matter what I did. That's where I learned how to be in an office with people. And I stayed there for almost two years. And then I, I left. But when people, well, I don't know what job do it. Literally. My mom said, take a job anyway.

Julie: 00:19:56

I love one of the stories to tell about the used to work. You're a copywriter for a wig.

Terri: 00:20:01

Oh, yes. The largest distributor of wigs and hairpieces in north America. Excuse you.

Julie: 00:20:08

I think this is great. You know, you're sitting in your, in your, I remember you're talking about sitting there and like, you're like, okay, I write copy for this wig company. And then when that job ended, you knew that it was time for that job to end. And then you started another job. You started working for Martha Stewart and then you had

Terri: 00:20:25

It wasn't Martha Stewart, by the way, it was a. tiny magazine, flea bitten couldn't pay its bills. They took me and there was No money. I took a $15,000 pay cut, which when you aren't making that much as a lot to

Julie: 00:20:40

right.

Terri: 00:20:40

And I left because I realized that the job I was at making pretty know fair, moderate income as a copywriter, I was so bored. I couldn't see straight after awhile. And there was nowhere to go. And they said to me, this job is not for fast risers. There was nowhere to go. And so I was like, Okay. So when an opportunity came up to get. Oh, I took a hit money-wise, but it changed everything. And six months later, Martha Stewart picked up that magazine probably with two fingers and was like, let's get this thing fumigated and cleaned up. And then, then my life changed. But could I have planned for that? Let me work with this bag. As you know, maybe a huge celebrity will buy it. You don't play on that stuff.

Julie: 00:21:19

right.

Terri: 00:21:20

don't but look, I took the job at the wig company because not because, well, I've, I've a passionate about hair pieces. I don't know anything about it. I don't care. It doesn't matter. There was a job that was creative copywriter in the creative department. And I said, this is where I get to do what I'm, what I like doing, which is writing and making things up and learning. And I said, what is this product by the way? Cause it was called, uh, se direct. So you didn't know what that, even when I was like, oh, by the way, I should, before I go in for this interview, I better look into what they do. And I pulled the website. I was like, yo Rosa, it was like wigs. And I was like, oh, I don't know what it is. This, and I went in there just regular people who were doing cool work. And I was like, okay, How do you know what you're going to learn? And I learned so much there too. You can learn something at every job. Show me someone who does a bunch of jobs and says everything was beneath me. And there was nothing to learn. Show me, someone who says that. And I will show you someone who doesn't know how to learn, and isn't curious, waiting for the job to make her or him, whereas you have to make that job.

Julie: 00:22:24

And one thing I love about talking about your different jobs is a lot of people think that if something ends, it's failed. We do this with jobs. We do this with relationships. And one thing I loved about both it, because you have two Ted talks, one thing I loved about your second one is that it's when things end, that doesn't mean they weren't special, or we didn't learn from them or they aren't important parts of creating who we are, but we always have this thing with finale, like passing.

Terri: 00:22:51

Yeah. we're obsessed with forever. We're obsessed with I'll do this forever. I will be with this person forever at this job forever. Um, I will always do this, nothing less forever. I've had things that I thought would last didn't and things that I didn't think would last did. You know, friendships that ended just in the ether just completely disappeared and jobs and clients who just have hung in there. Like you don't know, but this idea that the longer or more permanent something is the more valuable it is, um, is not, is not true. I mean, I hate to, I don't know if anyone knows. We aren't getting out of here alive. We are going to end. And I think that is the hardest thing to, to really come to terms with. And so we cling to things that we think will be forever because we think that that will secure us somehow. And the fact is it can't and it won't, relationships, some will last. Sure. Listen, the only marker of a relationship in our culture that's successful is that you die while you're.

Julie: 00:23:56

Yes.

Terri: 00:23:57

While you're in it. If you break up before you die, then it wasn't worth it. Of course not every job I had was worth it. Every extracurricular I did, which I didn't even care to do. I learned something from them. So, you know, the people who get the ring the most meaning from their lives are people who actually look for that. As opposed to this, isn't a fit that is a fit. Like they go through like addresses off the rack. Well, this isn't right, this is wrong. Try it on. Try it on. But no, I mean, look, you're married,

Julie: 00:24:29

I am.

Terri: 00:24:29

you made a commitment, but we know this is a conditional, anything could change, but we hope that you stay happily married. Right? That's the thing.

Julie: 00:24:39

Yeah. I mean, we've been married for almost 17 years. We've been together for 21 years and I always say, I'm not foolish. I know I'm a lot. I know there could be a morning

Terri: 00:24:48

Okay.

Julie: 00:24:48

where Chris just wakes up and he's like, you know what? Spending it's been a good run, but I'm done. Like, that shit happens.

Terri: 00:24:55

Yeah, but this idea, Right. That, that we've failed. If something doesn't last and marriage, obviously the most personal right. But the same with career, it's like, well, I left that career of my law career after, you know, 10 years. Of course not. You have all of those insights. You have a bag of treasures to take with you to the next thing. It doesn't mean you're voided. No one is going to take your resume or whatever. In stamp void, you change careers are over. Like it's all cumulative, You know?

Julie: 00:25:25

let's talk about the book because I've, I was lucky enough to get 'em. An advance, not even advanced copy and advanced manuscript. So I've read most of the book

Terri: 00:25:36

Wow.

Julie: 00:25:37

I'm a fast reader. So I want to just talk about the book, why you wrote the book, what are you hoping that people get at the end of this book? Because it's, it's wonderful.

Terri: 00:25:48

Well, thank you. That's really

Julie: 00:25:50

I even said it, we have a mutual friend. I was on the phone with Lisa on Friday and I was like, have you read Terry's book yet? It's so good.

Terri: 00:25:57

Aw, thank you. I always wanted to write a book. I've been writing w I sensibly to put together a book for, for years. I'd say, you know, seven years where I was like riding on, what is it? What is it? I didn't say, oh, I'm a failed book writer for every year that I didn't finish the book. It's more like, I really wasn't sure what it was. I knew. I, Okay. Here's a perfect example. I, okay. I am passionate about writing. Show me all the things I'm supposed to be writing Right. now that I'm not, well, if I'm passionate, I'll just do everything. No, I love to do it. It's what I do well, but I wasn't sure what it was or what I'm supposed to be doing. That's why the passionate thing doesn't always work because, well, I know I love to write, but what is this book? What need will it serve? I thought it was going to be a collection of essays. Those don't sell like the best, like when you're nobody, when no one knows who you are, like I'm not famous. So, uh, but when I, I worked on it, worked on it. Finally, I got to know the work. People skip this. They, they don't give themselves a chance to really know all the iterations of what that work is. And then I took it to an agent and she saw the potential, uh, lots. Didn't ripe it back to me at all. You know what all you need only need one to say yes, this one woman was like, what else you got? She took it to a bunch of publishers. We got one on the line who was. We might be into this, but it's not what you think it is. So I thought it was writing one book. They're like, actually, you're going to write the book and it's going to be a self-improvement title and it's going to be connected to that talk. You did hello? That's 7 million people saw. I was like, oh, okay. So I took all this stuff I had done. And I threw out, I didn't throw out half of it. I put it on the bench. I said, you guys, I don't need you right now. I need this for this specific game for this specific book. And my editor said, the problem is we all are stuck on that idea that, and we don't know what we're supposed to do instead, if you're not supposed to follow your passion, what are you supposed to do? And I said, well, it's not that you're not supposed to, but I want to, the only way to help you. Get their brain around this is to show them what does not apply and the searching for your passion and finding it. And that's the only way to happiness doesn't apply. So the book basically walks you through, Hey, can we clear out all of this crap that you and I have swallowed that has been told to us that this is the way a life should be led everything from, you know, Why you don't have to, you know, follow one passion and why your bucket list is great for travel plans, but not much else. And why this idea of baggage don't have too much baggage. Okay. We have all these ideas that they weren't ours to begin with. So we let go of that. And then I lead you through a method for drilling down and actually. Seeing what you already have in a new way, your skills, your practice, the fact that no one knows what the F is going to happen, ever, how to maximize your ability to improvise what you already have. And a one chapter that really means a lot to me is about, um, why we need to stop trying to. Because there's an idea that we should have these plans and if I'm this and I stick with it and I never waiver, that's going to be the life for me. And that's what, how I'll know I did the right? thing and has a lapsed Catholic. I will tell you, there is no one right thing. There's only a million obstacles that you were told should be there and they don't have to be. And so. Uh, it's really a process of unlearning. And the goal is for you, you, anyone who finds this appealing to really understand what freedom is, what sovereignty is, and it's not checking someone else's boxes, you might go. Okay. I think I that's what I believe too. Because for everyone who says they're stuck, they are buying into those things and they're shackled to these wrong ideas and wondering why they can't move. And so the goal, the arc of the book, and I had to make sure that I had an arc, like where's this going is for freedom. And it's not just for women, but if I had my bet in woman, I'm going to bet more women are going to read it than men because the women think their stock. So that's the, Yeah. That is the idea. I think my fantasy is that I'm clip, clip, clipping away, all these shackles and women and men and anyone who's felt kind of cowed by the idea of what their life should be is actually going, oh my God, why didn't anyone tell me that I didn't have to do this, that I didn't have to do these things. It took me a long time. You know, I was a freaking rule follower, a student all the way through compliant. And I am not a huge rebel, but I, it took to my forties to be like, oh no, no, no, I'm not doing this. And to me, that's freedom.

Julie: 00:30:37

like, cause I felt like it was 40 for me to where I was like, you know, fuck this, fuck this. Like I am 40. I, I think that's like that 40 is like a watershed age for a lot

Terri: 00:30:47

It is a fantastic age. I don't know why my friends are younger. They're in their thirties and they're getting up close, uncomfortably close for them to 40. I have a friend of mine just turned 39 and she's like posting like sort of teary-eyed pictures that she's at the end. I was like, honey, you're at the end of misery. I was like, my life didn't really even get going until 40, and it's, there's another wrong story that like all you're all done. Done. I am really finally feel like in my groove. And I think there is a freedom because especially for women in their twenties and thirties, they're being told how to be. You won't get as much as say over your body. You'll be told that your looks matter the most that, oh, I just want to be pretty and appealing for everyone or fit the mold by 40 you're like F this. 40 is it starts with an F I feel like it's the F off decade where you're like, oh, wait a minute. Now that you're not looking at me to be the young, pretty thing that you can apply a blue mold. Now I'm going to do what that.

Julie: 00:31:44

Yeah, I think for, I mean, I'm 45, so I'm fully into my forties, but that was when I remember saying to myself, if I don't start this company, by the time I'm 40, I will never forgive myself. And, so I started it when I was 39, because I knew for me, 40 was, it was the tipping point of something for me

Terri: 00:32:04

I don't know if I had a hard rule. I mean, I, because I do think I need to have be married by the time I'm 30 or have kids by the time I'm this and those kinds of things are, are hard, but 40 is often a wake-up call to people. And, and that sounds scary. Wake up call, like who doesn't want to be fully awakened and living their life, on their own terms. And you don't have to wait until your forties, but I, I couldn't have, I wouldn't have had these thoughts even at 20, because I would have been like, no, I just, I wonder if the world will accept me or if there's anything, is there any room for me? Like I thought there'd be no. room and that's, that's not true. There's so much room because so many people are. Could care less. If you care about anything enough, you could probably do something. But to me, I think it's, uh, basically for people who are teetering your 40 do not pay.

Julie: 00:32:58

No. I mean, and the thing is, is when, when you were 30, you thought you were old and now that you're 40, you look back at 30 and you're like, oh my God, I was such a kid. Like, so now when I'm 50 or 55, I'm going to look back at myself now and be like, oh my God.

Terri: 00:33:10

All the ways you're the youngest you'll ever be. I mean, when you're 60, you're going to look at 40 year olds crying about it. You'd be like really grow up. You're fine.

Julie: 00:33:17

Yeah, yeah.

Terri: 00:33:19

And I think that the most exciting. Interesting people who seem the most fulfilled are those who they embraced that mystery. They go, I don't know what I'm gonna do next. I don't want to meet you 20 years from now. I didn't know what I'd be doing now. I didn't know. I wasn't like by this age, you need to be able to have a book published, uh, unless I'm publishing it myself, which is a way to make sure you publish a book. If you're waiting for someone else to approve, there's a lot of downtime while you're waiting to hear back and hear a lot of nos. What is this run? You're you know, like they're just this illusion of like, hurry up, hurry up to win until you don't rot because you're middle-aged women. No, one's anymore. That's the wrong story too.

Julie: 00:33:57

Yeah. again, this book is going to be great for anybody at any point in their life, but I also think that it is super important for somebody who is maybe my age. What have I done with my life? Like what have I missed the boat? Like, no, you didn't

Terri: 00:34:12

Oh my God. No.

Julie: 00:34:13

build the boat, build a boat. Don't miss the boat, build a boat, you

Terri: 00:34:16

Yeah, no, there's no, there's no missing. You're missing your calling or I, that is all really crazy. And actually there was a study and I'll, I'll tell you this Carol Dweck, of course, in her brilliant team, she, she studies fixed mindsets and how they affect, our belief systems and our actions, everything else. And one of the studies. What showed that people who believed that passions were fixed, that I am born to do this one thing. And that's it. They were actually more likely to curtail interests in other areas. Well, no, I don't read books like that because I do this. They were so fixated and yet, um, they also. We're if something went wrong, if something was hard, they were more likely to very quickly give up on it. So the fixed mindset were more rigid about it. Either. I only do this, I do nothing else. If it doesn't work out, I guess that's wrong. Do another thing that people who do not look at life that way, and this is something you can learn, they would explore lots of things. And you know, for once have creative, I want to create a job. Well, you want to be creative. Start finding ways to mesh and blend. Worlds that don't seem to have anything to do with each other, because that idea that I meant to do this is really going to limit you and may cut you off from people, ideas, books, anything that's outside of what you think your lane is.

Julie: 00:35:38

I do. I got to say, I hate that saying stay in your lane, pick your lane. Like I hate that

Terri: 00:35:45

It's like rope professional road rage.

Julie: 00:35:47

yeah, I S I went to an event once where there's this woman who was like, uh, motivational, like female ambition thing. And she kept talking about being in your own lane and right.

Terri: 00:35:56

What does that mean?

Julie: 00:35:57

the opposite of what we're supposed to be doing. We're not supposed to be in our lane, like Arlene Sox, like aren't we supposed to be growing? Aren't we supposed to be merging into other lanes?

Terri: 00:36:07

Well, unless she means, because it can sound like color in the lines. It can sound like compliance, unless she means. Feel free to open it up on the road and do only what you want to do. Like, I don't want to do bookkeeping, so I invest in a bookkeeper. I don't want it. I really appreciate someone else helping me track that so that I can really drive hard. And in my lane, I just think when you think of lanes ethical lines, and I think someone's telling me where I'm allowed to drive and I don't like people telling me what to do.

Julie: 00:36:37

Right. Which is also why you wrote this great book on I'm following your passion.

Terri: 00:36:42

Hey, I mean, I, I wrote it and I also wrote it to what, and let's just, I say this because I don't want there to be any illusion that I sat down in a world of inspiration just wrote it. I was told very clearly by my publisher. This is the kind of thing people need. You need to work harder and make the writing do this. You need to, I got a lot of. Which made the writing better? Cause I made sure it was serving an audience. So you're not just getting my musings cause, uh, Simon. And sister's like, oh, we don't give up about your musings, make this usable. And you're asking, when you ask people to buy a book, you're asking them to invest money in something that should give them something to do. Yours does that your book shows people, this is how you do it. And it works. But only if you do it, like you say, intuition and action. You need to have an engine in that car the same way. Lest you think I'm just like blobby, Blas, soft skills, whatever. Like, this is about what do you really want? And it can't have anything to do with people, what people expect of you. And so I'm hoping that it serves and that's the point. That's why I'm excited.

Julie: 00:37:42

So where can people find your book? I know it's not out yet. It's not published yet.

Terri: 00:37:46

Well, no pre-sales are open. So. what I did was I'm doing a special thing. A pre-party. If you go to unfollow your passion.com, you'll be brought to my website on a page where you can pre-order the book. Doesn't have to be through a major retailer if you want to buy it. And there's lots of options. And when you do that, you will have access to special bonuses that only pre-sale people get like an exclusive video course called a unsubscribed yourself. I'm also going to have a writing journal to download, and there's going to be a live book club when the book is out at well after the new year, the book's out in December, but after the new year, we're going to do four weeks of live interactive calls to work through the material of the book.

Julie: 00:38:28

that's amazing. That's awesome. Okay. So unfollow your passion.com.

Terri: 00:38:31

Can you believe it was available? I was so psyched about that.

Julie: 00:38:35

After listening to you, I'm not surprised it was available because everybody wants to follow their

Terri: 00:38:39

That's right. That's right. So if you go there and then we'll be in touch.

Julie: 00:38:43

Okay. So I will put a link to all, I'll put a link to you. I'll put a link to that. I'll put everything in the show notes, for all of the listeners. And I hope everybody gets this book because I

Terri: 00:38:52

Well, thank you, Julie. I really appreciate.

Julie: 00:38:54

You're welcome. Okay. Thank you so much. I get that. I get the chef's kiss.

Terri: 00:39:01

You get the chef's kiss. You always get the chef's kiss.

Julie: 00:39:08

I could listen to Terry read the ingredients of a cereal box. She just has that kind of voice. There were so many great takeaways from my discussion with Terry, but one of the things that I want to restate. In case you missed it. Is that the narrative that we are taught. That passion has to last forever. It falls short of reality that isn't how passion works. It ebbs and it flows, it spikes like a fever and then it goes away and then it shows up again, somewhere else, completely. It's why we change jobs or entire careers. It's how we discover new friends and why sometimes marriages end. Because passion isn't consistent. And that's oh, Kay. A sentence from Terry's book that sticks out to me is this, you have made choices. Regardless of what you think of them now. They were the best ones you can make at the time. You didn't mess up. You didn't choose the wrong thing. You didn't miss your calling like a phone. You couldn't get to quick enough. Just says you may not feel one way about one thing forever. You don't need to divine singular higher purpose to give your life meaning. You might feel drawn in one direction or repelled by another. But be wary of using the language of callings, which almost always reflects agenda and bias, implying that some things are worth pursuing. In some are not. Everything teaches you along the way. The jobs you've had your friendships. Levers. We all contribute to building the experiences that will help you find different passions within your life. None of them were mistakes. If you learned from them, they were lessons. So the easiest thing to do for a cocktail of the week would be something with passion, fruit in it, but you know what. I'm not passionate about dealing with passionfruit and blending it up and making some passion, fruit puree for y'all. I'm just not, so yeah, getting it. Last week, we talked about boundaries and I'm making an internal boundary right now that says, bitch, don't have diamond. Make passion, fruit, puree. So. What we're going to do is have a nice glass of wine, which if you know anything about me, I have a passion for good. Wine. There's a winery in Sonoma, which is Sonoma is one of my favorite places. the winery is called the calling. So this is Jim nancy's winery. Jen isn't any, a winning sports commentator. He's called some of the biggest sporting events for CBS television networks since 1985. Jen. Has a passion for sports. Yeah, sure. It does. But guess what? I guess he also has a passion for wine because he has a linery you don't have to have one thing that you're passionate about. So stop limiting yourself. Okay. Full disclosure. I couldn't get my hands on this wine. I tried. But the shipping from California to Massachusetts was ridiculous. Like it almost costs as much to ship the wine as the bottle of wine that I was going to, you know, showcase, which was their Chardonnay. So you're just going to have to settle for a story here today. Uh, but if you're listening and you're from the Sonoma area, head on over to the calling and let me know how their Chardonnay is, you know, I love. Chardonnay. So that's it friends. Until next week. Cheers.