How to Make Friends As An Adult with Dr. Marisa Franco

Julie: 00:00:00

I wanted to start this episode with a quote about friendship, but there were so many of them that I found it hard to choose. Just one. If friendship is so important to us, why is it that the average adult has less friends now? Than in previous generations. Maybe this quote from Winnie the Pooh sums up why this is happening. You can't stay in your corner of the forest, waiting for others to come to you. You have to go to them sometimes. Welcome to episode 38. Where I am joined by Dr. Murcia Franco to discuss how to make friends as an adult. This episode is sponsored by Nickerson, a full service branding, marketing PR and communications agency with team members in Boston, LA, Miami, and New York city. Each year I celebrate friends, giving and friends, Christmas, which we refer to as Fistmas just go with it. Friends giving is two days after Thanksgiving and fist misses. Two days after Christmas. There are 10 of us that celebrate together. But sometimes the numbers swell past that, depending on who has friends or family visiting at the time. I look forward to these gatherings of friends as much. If not more than my family celebrations as an adult. My friends are the family that I have chosen and that have chosen me. I look at my friends and know for a fact that we will be there for each other through thick and thin. We already have been, we've held on to each other through the loss of a child. The loss of parents, multiple cancer diagnoses injuries, and so much more. We've celebrated each other's successes. Looked out for each other provided for each other. When together, we often make each other laugh to the point where tears trimmed down our faces. And we have to tell each other to shut up because we are going to PR pants. What is interesting about this group of friends is that I made these friends as an adult. I don't think I understood how special that was until I was introduced to Dr. Marissa Franco and her research on the importance of adult friendships. You see the research shows and you all know how much I love research on this podcast. So the research shows that our friendship networks have been shrinking. At an alarming rate. For example. In studies conducted between 1980 and 1980 5% participants. Reportedly had four more friends on average, compared with the participants who partook in studies between 2000 and 2005. Would that average playing out in real life? It would mean that instead of my group of 10, for friends giving we'd only be a party of six. I can't imagine these celebrations with four members of our group missing. Why does this happen? You might ask, well, A study of young adults, social networks by researchers at the university of Oxford found that couples and romantic relationship had on average two fewer close social ties, including friends. And when those couples start having kids. They begin to lose even more of their friends. I'm at an age where a number of my friends have gone through a divorce. And through that process have felt as if they have lost a number of friends who had chosen a side. Leaving them with not only the gaping hole that a divorce will create in your life. But with a friendship void as well. When I picture my golden years, I picture sharing them with my friends, laughing about all the shit we've done together over the years and wondering how we ever made it to old age, given the shenanigans, we were constantly pulling. Given the studies, the scenario may be a rarity. If we aren't careful, We risk losing our friends among the hustle and bustle of our busy lives. This is why I have asked Dr. Murcia Franco to join us today. Marissa is a psychologist and friendship, expert. She writes regularly about connection for psychology today and has been a featured connection expert in publications, including the New York times, the Telegraph and vice. And was recently a guest expert on good morning, America. She is currently writing a book platonic on how to make friends as an adult. Marissa, thank you so much for being here today.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:04:48

So happy to be here. That was such a touching introduction. Thank you for sharing.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:04:53

Oh, it's true. I have friends from my childhood and I have my friends from college, but my closest friends are the friends that I made, after I was, 35 years old. And I don't think I knew that that was a rarity until I started reading about you and the research that you've been.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:05:12

Yeah. Uh, how did you make your friends at 30 after 30?

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:05:16

We have a house in Vermont. And I met them from having a house up there and, and meeting people who also have houses up there, you know, met at restaurants or on the mountain or through other friends. So it was all very. Just sort of serendipitous, and I think what you're w where you might be getting at is did I actively try to make friends as an adult? And I didn't, I, it very happened very serendipitously, which in, by chance, which I think is not probably what you're going to talk about. You, you're probably going to say we have to be a little bit more active in making friends as an adult.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:05:53

Yes, I will say that, but I will also say that there's a sociologist and she talks about what helps us make friends in this organic way. And she said, it's, the ingredients are continuous unplanned interaction and shared vulnerability. So if we are finding ourselves in settings where we have those ingredients, then sure friendships might happen organically. And that's why we see KIPP is having a lot easier time making friends on the playground in school. But as we become adults, it's like we have fewer and fewer spaces where we have those ingredients. I mean, some people find it at work, but other people feel like, Oh, I need to be professional at work. So I'm not going to bring in that vulnerability piece. And so I think if you can put yourself in places where you have Those ingredients, then it's going to make it a lot easier, like showing up to a class of some sort or even if there's a regular place that you go every year and, um, you know, Sort of the summer camp kind of things for adults like meditation retreats that people are doing, I'm signing up for some writers' residencies for my book. Then that makes it a lot easier to make friends. But yes, I will say that generally people are not making friends organically. the average person has made a new friend in the last five years and about half of people say that they would want to make new friends if they only knew how. And so I think what happens is. Because in our childhood, it was lot easier because we had those ingredients. We never quite had to build the skills of taking that initiative and trying, and I think that can really, it can harm us. It can harm us if we no longer have that safety net. Um, I'm thinking about a research study that found that people who thought making friends with something that happened based off luck, rather than effort were more likely to be lonely years later.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:07:42

I'm still sort of a little dumbfounded by that stat that you just put out that the average person hasn't made a new friend in the past five years that shocks me. But maybe to you, it doesn't because you're studying this and obviously you're studying it for a reason, but I'm really floored by that statistic. That's so interesting. Um, you said most people want to make friends, but they don't know how so if people are not making friends and there is this need and this yearning for making friends, but they don't know how it, what are the steps that people can do as an adult to make friends and to keep friends, if obviously, part of, having a friendship is maintaining it.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:08:25

Yeah. Yeah, no, this is a really, really great question. So I like to tell people, because I think when it comes to making friends, people are very passive, not like how they are with romantic relationships, where they're swiping and, you know, joining match.com or asking friends to hook you up when it comes to friends. I think people just assume that they're going to. Show up in their lives. So I just encourage people to really be intentional and put yourself out there. If you meet someone you like, say, Hey, I, this conversation I'd love to follow up and connect some time. and I think one of the biggest barriers to people doing that is that they're very afraid of rejection. And so I like to tell them about the study on something called the liking gap. and so this was a study where researchers put strangers together, have them interact afterwards. They asked. It's the strangers. Hey, how much did you like the person you interacted with? Generally, the researchers found that people underestimated how liked they were. And so this, the study kind of suggests that we all have this bias to assume that people like us less than we act they actually do. So something that I suggest for people, if you want to put yourself out there, assume that people like you. I assume that the world is open to you, that you will enjoy this interaction, that people are going to say yes. And then it's going to be a lot easier for you to put yourself out there.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:09:45

That's great. Assume that people like you, or will like you, I'm sure that's very hard for some people because I see this over and over again, a lot of, because I'm a networking coach. And so I coach people on how to build business relationships. A lot of people say, well, I don't know anybody why anybody would want to know me. And I feel like that kind of goes hand in hand. You have to believe that you are a, that you would be a good friend and now people like you and that you have values that other people would want to also have in their life in a friend,

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:10:11

Exactly. And I think, that point you brought up, I think it's really important for all of us to think about and understand what we bring to the table as a friend. So maybe that means asking your friends, what do you think is a unique strength that I have as a friend? or just being reflective and, and noticing what makes you different or unique as a friend, because. If you go into interactions, assuming that you're inferior to other people, it's going to be really hard to build friends because friendship happens when there's no hierarchy and there's more ease. And if you feel like someone's better than you, you're going to be really afraid to build a relationship with them because you're going to feel like, Oh, I'm imposing onto them. They're not interested. They're better than me. Oh, your insecurities are basically gonna get inflamed. So, when I'm going into a new group of people, Sometimes I am scared. Sometimes I am nervous and, reminding myself to assume people like me, it's one thing that I do. But the other thing is to think about my unique strengths and to remind myself that, Hey, nobody's better than me. Like I'm an insightful person. I'm a good listener. And so as interesting as these people may be that I'm about to interact with, I am interesting as well. And this is actually again, based on some research, these researchers basically. Told people. Why do people and said, Hey, this person you're about to interact with, they read a little bit about you and they like you. And they found that when people thought that they were liked, they were more like a bowl. They were more engaged. They were more present in the conversation. when we are afraid of rejection, it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because we're like, let me not put my. I saw out there, let me withdraw, let me stay quiet. And the truth is that to be likable to other people, you have to show that you like them. That's what all the research has told me. And so I think it's just really important to keep your strengths in mind so that you can be able to do that.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:12:00

Yeah, when I think about when I'm making a strategic introduction, so over email, and I'll say, Oh, you two have to know each other. This person is so great because of this. And I know you're going to love this about this person. Someone else can prime that for you as well. So you almost have to prime yourself for that. You can say they're going to love this about me and this about me. This is what I bring to the table. I read somewhere that, there was research back in the sixties that show that people are primed to like people more. If they know that they'll see them again so does this play into joining a club or something like that to meet people because you know that there'll be a repetition in the amount of time that you see them.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:12:44

Definitely, definitely. And that also capitalizes on something called the mere exposure effect, which is this psychology phenomenon that basically, as people get more familiar to us, we like them more it's happens completely unconsciously. These researchers implanted students in a psychology class for varying numbers of classes. One student came like no classes. Another student came, came to 10 classes. It was a large lecture and none of the students remembered these implants, right. But at the end of the semester, when the professor asked the students, Hey, these are pictures of these women, who do you like best? They didn't remember the woman, but they reported that they liked the woman that showed up to the most classes the most. So it's happening completely unconsciously that just as people become familiar to us, we like them more. And so that's why, what, another thing that I suggest is if you're interested in making new friends, Can you join something that is continuous rather than one-off don't don't let me go into happy hour. Isn't a bad idea, but can you join a writing class or a dinner club or an improv club? Something that will allow you to see people over time and build those relationships.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:13:51

So I think it can be intimidating if you like say you want to meet people and you want to make friends. What, if you think I'm trying to word this correctly how do you explain that you don't have a lot of friends? I feel like people might feel a little self-conscious if they're trying to make friends and they get invited to do things with you, with other people who have friends and you don't really have any friends, how do we get over that hurdle that somebody maybe who's gone through a divorce and they feel like they've lost a lot of their friend group. How do you get over this stigma that you're not popular enough to make new friends because you don't have enough friends to begin with?

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:14:35

Yeah. Well, first I was like, just have a lot of empathy for that. I think a lot of people don't have friends. I mean, it's easy from social media to assume that that's not the case, but the research is really showing us our friendship networks are shrinking. a lot of people report that they don't have even one confidant in their life. And so it's not necessarily that something is wrong with you as a person. If you don't have friends, maybe you haven't learned the skills. Maybe you just went through something, a big life, change a divorce, you moved to cities, or maybe you've just been working a lot. There's a lot of reasons. Like, you're a weird person. People don't like you. Right. Um, but I would say like, as you're getting back out there, something that I recommend more generally with communication, instead of expressing what your issue is, express, what your need is to solve that issue. Right. So instead of saying I don't have any friends saying, you know what, I'm trying to get back out there and make more friends, um, as, yeah, as a sort of more positively balanced way to connect with the new people that you're meeting.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:15:36

How has the pandemic affected friendship?

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:15:39

Whoo. I have been getting this question, you know, I was. Interviewed on this question on good morning America. And I also put it out to my Instagram followers. And what I've just been seeing is that people feel, people are almost experiencing symptoms of social anxiety that they even people that have never experienced social anxiety. So yeah. Difficulties coming up with something to say, self-consciousness that they said something stupid feeling like they're rambling, trouble making eye contact feeling just socially awkward, like, you know, the sort of, um, music of the interaction isn't working out. We're interrupting each other. We're speaking over each other and. I just wanted to, I have just been telling people like, Hey, this is normal when you haven't interacted socially in a while. It's so normal for you to feel a little bit rusty. And in fact, socializing is actually one of the most complex things our brains can do. Like there's so many things we're doing when we're socializing, we are understanding someone else's cues. We are understanding our own cues. We are. Taking our needs and turning them into something that we are expressing to another person, there's just so much going on when we're socializing at any of those things can break down if we're not practicing. and also loneliness actually increases our social anxiety. And so as we've all been lonely this past year, or we've also as a by-product of that probably are experiencing more social anxiety. and then something else that I've talked about is the idea of friendship doubt this, this increase in people's fears that their friends don't really like them, which is also something that we experienced when we're lonely. So, something I like to share about loneliness is that it's not just a feeling. It's actually a state of mind when we're lonely. We're more likely to. Think people are rejecting us. Be very cynical, assume the worst. We don't like other people as much. we punish other people when we're at research studies with them, we report that we appreciate humanity less. We are in a very threatened state, but we don't always realize, Oh, Hey this way that I'm thinking is because I'm lonely. Instead of this way that I'm thinking is the truth. Nobody likes me and I don't feel close to anybody. So I just say that all to, to put out the larger landscape of what's happening to us socially. To share that if that's something you're going through, you're not alone. This is normal. Don't worry. As you slowly begin to interact more and more, your social skills will come back to you. You'll feel less disconnected and things will go back to normal because we are social creatures. We have it within us to be social. And so you're simply uncovering. What's already there inside you, but split's been a little bit blocked because of we've gone through a year of extended isolation.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:18:23

The first time I ever heard the term friendship doubt was when I saw you on good morning, America talking about it. I had never heard of this before. And the only thing I can think of is say you text a friend and normally they text you right back. But for some reason it's been like 24 hours. You're like, dude, what happened? Why aren't they texting me back or something like that, you call and they don't call you back. And. I feel like this is something I talk to my clients about in business I say, it's not about you. You have no idea what that person is dealing with right now. So the fact that they haven't responded to you could mean that something's happening in their life, you know, beyond just having the ability to respond to. But I had not. I heard of friendship. Nope. Before I had not heard, I hadn't heard of it. I didn't know that this was something that was prevalent. I guess my question is, that's a by-product of the pandemic or was that there before the pandemic?

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:19:22

I think it's a by-product of loneliness. And so that's, what's happening in this pandemic that, um, we are experiencing more of that, that doubt, that insecurity, that fear, that people don't really like us.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:19:35

what are your tips for getting people to open up to you That's a really big part of. Building a friendship, creating a common bond, understanding people's struggles, finding commonality within struggles.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:19:48

Yeah, this is a great question and super important for friendship. I think our friendships deep in the more that we reveal ourselves within them. and so that article that I read was on something called openers and the research and openers are people that are really good at getting people to open up and basically act very interested in the other person. They're asking a lot of open questions. They are assessing the interaction for whether they're the ones talking too much and whether they're giving the other percentage chance to share. They are nonjudgmental. So if someone maybe expresses something that they don't necessarily agree with, they might ask another question to get more clarity or to understand their perspective rather than being like, this is how I think. And so it gets at something called person centered communication, where your communication is, it's focused on the person in front of you. I guess an instance would be like, let's say someone else, your friend is like, Oh, I just went on a trip to Chicago and it was really fun. If you're not pressing Saturday, my chair, Oh, I went on a trip to Chicago. I really liked this and this and this. Whereas if you're an opener, you're more person centered you say, Oh my gosh. It's so great. How was your trip to Chicago? What did you do there? Tell me more. I want to hear all about this.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:20:59

Uh, I'm not that open person. I just realized that I, the first thing I would say would be, Oh my God, I've been a million times. My best friend lives there. Oh my God. Let me tell you about all of them. Yeah. Okay. So I suck at that. Okay. I get that. Now that was a glaring sort of stop sign for me. That's so interesting. Um, so. You being interested, more interested in the other person, what the other person's experience than sharing your experience first? Like you can follow up with your experience.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:21:35

Yeah. Yeah. Certainly. I mean, we don't want to make someone feel like they're interrogated, but you also want to make someone feel like you're interested in them and not just interested in waiting for them to finish talking. So you can go back to you.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:21:46

Your book is called platonic. And I we're talking about building friendships as an adult. I have just as many male friends as I have female friends. How do you navigate building relationships And making sure that the other person knows that you're building a platonic friendship. Is that something we have to discuss?

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:22:06

Yeah. That is a great, great question. Um, It's not something I've been asked about before, but I have some speculative thoughts, but I won't say I'm an expert on the answer to this question. I think just putting out there that you're in a relationship, like mentioning your spouse, mentioning your husband before you ask someone to hang out, it's really important. I think it's also really important to invite your spouse into your, your friendship. And so say, you know, Hey, I'm gonna hang out with this person. Like, do you want to come? You're welcome to come. And so I think that's really a way of. Building trust with your spouse and also setting expectations with the other person. You might also consider inviting their spouse. Um, and so all of this I think is a way to, to clear the air a little bit to signal that, Hey, this is a platonic relationship that I'm looking for with you.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:22:58

Is it easier to build relationships? If you're a couple, if you're a coupled with someone, because then you can do a couple of things or is it. Is it just as easy to do that, say if you're newly single or if you are single.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:23:10

I honestly, I think we see from the research that single people experience the jackpot of friendships a lot of people relate to romantic relationships as their Island. And in fact, when people get into romantic relationships, they tend to lose friendships. And, you know, I think we we've, a lot of us have been socialized to think this is the be all end, all form of love in our lives. And platonic love is like this purgatory love that we have until we find that romantic love. but in fact, that's really untrue. The science shows that when we have healthy friendships, our romantic relationships are more durable during times of turbulence. Because we have other people to turn to. For example, also I think friendships, friends play such a primary role in making us feel like ourselves because one person can only draw for forth a certain side of us. Right. And so maybe as much as I love my spouse, he doesn't get my love of work. Water skiing or my love of woodworking. And I might have to be around other people too, to completely unleash that side of myself. And so I think if you want to experience yourself as a full person, you need to experience yourself in an entire community people.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:24:20

How do we maintain our friendships if we know that. So we're building friendships and friendships are something that you have to keep doing over time. You have to see that person over time and invest in that relationship over time. How do you prioritize it?

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:24:39

That is a good point. You need to prioritize it, right? Like I think we, it takes a lot of intentionality, in ways that similar to your romantic relationship, if you're not intentional, it can start to feel like your roommates, right. And so you scheduled dates with each other and you find time with each other. And that is what friendship needs. Two, you need to nurture it. You need to check in, you need to find times to hang out. You need to make sure that it is a priority and act accordingly and not act like, Oh, this is something that can go off my, Oh my list of things to do. If things get really, if things get busy enough, then I'm going to cross off friendship. Right. but I think aside from that, there's a lot of ways that you can build a friendship and funny enough, I think we have these misconceptions that a lot of the ways that actually nurture friendship, we think friendship, right? So for example, vulnerability research actually finds that people like people more when they're vulnerable. And in fact, people judge us less than we think they do because they see us as more authentic and honest. And so vulnerability can be something that. That greatly bridges a friendship, such that even if you see someone less often, but when you do spend time with them, you're telling them what's really going on and you're being vulnerable that will maintain the friendship more so than if you're meeting three times this month, but you're having shallow conversations with them. I think another thing that's really important is just showing affection for our friends, telling your friends, Hey, I love you. I value you. You are so important to me being excited at our friend success, you know, cause they got a new job. I am so excited for you. I'm taking you out to celebrate. just like I said before, this is based on a theory called an inferred attraction that people like us when they think we like them. Right. And so when we show affection for our friends, they tend to like us more too. And that's because. What we're really doing when we do that is we're making people feel safe. People only invest in relationships to the extent that we, they can feel safe doing. So if they feel like we might reject them, they are going to pull back to protect themselves from that rejection.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:26:40

You know, it's funny that you say, tell your friends that you love them. My, my group of 10, the 10 of us, we don't leave each other without saying, bye. I love you. and we mean it. And I think it's because we've been through so much loss together that we really cherish the fact that we get to be together. So it was awkward at first, I feel like. And when we were like, okay, love you, love you, love you. Like all of us, you know? But now it's just something that we do. We don't leave each other without telling each other that we love each other. I want to ask you about distance between friends. So one of my really good friends, one of my best friends lives in Chicago. I live in Boston. I fly to see her once a year. And when I fly to see here, we pick up where we left off three a year, has not gone by, in our love for each other and our ability to connect with each other. But there are a lot of people who have long distance friends. So what is a good way to maintain a long distance friendship that is important to you, that you don't get to see that person as much as you would like?

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:27:41

Yeah. This is a great question. And I think what you're doing is exactly what I'd recommend. Finding time to see each other in person is just so, so important and can really just sustain and rehabilitate a relationship. But I think it also shows right that you're invested in the friendship and the more that we show we're invested, the more the other person feels free to be invested to you. And so I think anything that you do to show. Care consideration to show that you like your friend will maintain the friendship. So for example, if you are, your friend is sick and you send them some ramen noodles from their local restaurant, even though you're a long distance from them, if you send them a thoughtful card for their birthday, all of these are little things that can really maintain the friendship, but something that you touched on Julie, that I think is really important is. Asking for support when you need it. It sounds like you've been through some really heavy experiences with your friends. And that is also the kind of thing that really builds a friendship. Asking for support can be a gateway to such deep intimacy, because it builds so much trust when some people see us at our most vulnerable and are still willing to show up. And that's another thing that people are afraid of, like asking for support. I'm going to push people away, but in fact, it can invite. So much more intimacy and vulnerability in the relationship. So both asking for, and I think showing up during times of support, right? So if you think that your friend is going through a tough time, don't just do nothing. How can you be intentional about showing them that you care for them? Whether that's sending them a meal, calling them to check in more, texting them to tell them you're on their, on your mind asking even asking them, Hey, I was thinking Of doing X, Y, Z to help you would that be okay for you? Like not waiting for them to come and ask for you because when people are in a period of distress, it's even more energy for them to have to think of something from you. So you go out of your way to propose something instead.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:29:33

Is there a, this is, this is weird, but like say you're in a new friendship. Is there, uh, is there a time period for when you're allowed to be that vulnerable? Or can you be that vulnerable from go.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:29:48

I think it depends on the person. And I would also think we should understand our motives when it comes to vulnerability, because I think some people are vulnerable to try to kind of. I try to kind of force someone else to feel close to them rather than to express their truth or to do it because they it's honoring or signaling how close they feel to the other person. Right. And so then we get into this sort of oversharing territory, which I don't think is actually vulnerability, because I think when we're like really vulnerable, we're just trying to express ourselves rather than try having this underlying motive that I'll say that sometimes we have when we're oversharing. Right. I know some people who are sort of like, I'm going to put all my problems out on the table, because then it's almost like a test to see if they're going to like me anyway. And when testing people, that's not true, vulnerability, vulnerability is, is authentic. It doesn't happen, but underlying motive. And so I think, you know, I think it takes. Feeling someone out. Right? So is when you are vulnerable, is the other person interested? Are they meeting you there or are they kind of backing away? taking that view of the relationship. And I also think it takes understanding where are my motives are my motives to express something. Cause I feel comfortable in this relationship are they to express some underlying motive around, you know, I figure you're going to reject me. So I'm going to be ultra vulnerable and see if you're going to reject me and test you. Sure.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:31:10

Sure. So if I were going to try to wrap this podcast up in a boat, which I feel like is doing such a disservice because you have so much to talk about, and it's been such an interesting conversation that I hope we get to maybe have another one when your book comes out or when your next book comes out. Because if you're like me, you wrote a book and you're already thinking about your next book. if you feel like you want to make friends and you feel like you don't have enough friends, you're not alone. You everybody there is there's this sort of want and need for friendship now. And in order to do that, you have to put yourself in a position to make friends and to dedicate time to making friends, and understand the benefits that that will have on your life. And I should have said this. People want to be your friend. You know, you are likable. You have so many things to offer. People want to be your friend. Does that sound like a good way to wrap it up?

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:32:06

Yeah. And, and I think he did a great, great job. That's an awesome summary. And also just show that you like people. I think when we want to make friends, we're so focused on, does the other person like me, are they checking in? You know, like, are they interested, but but we don't ask ourselves the same question. Am I checking in? And am I showing that I like them, um, get out of your head and be intentional about showing other people that you value them, be enthusiastic when they reach out to you, you know, try to show up. Try not to bail. Tell them like what you like about them, what you see in them already that you really value. And I think that is the way that we build connections. We ultimately are making other people feel really safe.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:32:44

Marissa, when does your book come out?

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:32:47

I am almost done writing it and then I have to get my feedback and then it takes another year to, um, come up with the cover design and marketing plan.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:33:00

In the meantime, between now and the book, you, you write articles, they can go to your website, they can follow you on Instagram. You, you are putting out, a lot of content in between now and then, correct.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:33:12

Yes. Yes. So definitely sign up for my newsletter on my website. That's what you get a lot of the research on friendship and updates on my book. That's Dr. As in Dr. Marisa G franco.com, uh, and also Dr. Marissa G Franco is my Instagram and my Twitter handle where you can learn more about friendship. And on my website, I also have a blog which gives you a lot of different, a lot of information on

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:33:36

friendship. Great, Marissa, thank you so much. I love all of the podcast interviews, but I, this one for me struck a chord. So I just, I just thank you so much for being here for agreeing to do

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:33:47

this. No problem. And honesty or story of friendship was so beautiful. Such a beautiful way.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:33:54

I'll tell the others that you said that they'll love that. Yeah.

audio_only_16780290_Marisa_Franco: 00:33:58

Yeah. It was great to meet you, Julie. Thanks.

audio_only_16778242_Julie_Brown: 00:34:01

Bye.

Julie: 00:34:04

I say this a lot after interviews. And I always mean it, but this time I really, really mean it. We covered a ton in that interview. And I'm still reeling from the statistic that the average person hasn't made a new friend and more than five years. I think back to all the new people I have met in past five years. And even this year during the pandemic and how rich my life is because they are in it. And it makes me sad to think that there are people who year after year are not adding new friends to their lives. And because of this research that Dr. Franco is doing, we know that most adults want to make friends. They just aren't sure how to do it at this stage of their lives. The secret to making friends as an adult is that you have to try, you have to put yourself out there. You have to ask people to spend time with you and do things with you. It begins with small acts, like the simple act of saying hello to someone. And it builds from there. Small acts can and will open the doors to a closer friendship that is built over time. But you have to do the work. You have to have continuous interactions with someone for the friendship to begin to take hold and grow. Putting yourself out there and asking someone if they want to spend time with you can be scary. Because we are all so afraid of rejection. We need to suspend the disbelief we have in ourselves. We need to start worrying why someone would want to be our friend. The studies show that we are more likable than we give ourselves credit for. And we have lots of things that we can contribute to a friendship. But you have to take the initiative to start building these new relationships as adults. These relationships will not happen spontaneously. As we start to emerge from this pandemic and begin to live more social lives. Think about how you can get involved in things that you are interested in as a way to meet new people and build new friendships. I know my friends, have helped me live a richer, happier and more fulfilled life. And that's what I want for you too. Okay. So some of my girlfriends, when we get together, it's all about the gossip. It's all about spilling the tea. Don't judge me. I'm a good person, but I like me some gossip too. So today's drink of the week, comes with a little history lesson. If you know anything about me, it's that I am a huge history buff. I like history. Almost as much as I like true crime. Almost. So the term. Spilling the tea. As a way to describe gossip is used a lot in modern culture now, but most people don't know that it got its origin in black drag culture. One of the earliest print uses of the word tea, then just used as the capital letter T comes from the non-fiction bestseller midnight in the garden of good and evil. In it, the character, the lady Chablis, a prominent drag performer in Savannah is being interviewed about her dating life and she notes that she avoided certain men. Because they are prone to violence. When they quote, find out her tea. You're T she is questioned. Yeah, my T she answers my thing, my business what's going on in my life. The book gave the world a peek into the vocabulary of black drag culture. T here is short for truth. And her truth is that she's transgender. It appears that capital T and also spelled tea. Had a double edged meaning in black drag culture, it could refer to a hidden truth. I Chablis uses it and it could also refer to someone else's hidden truth. That is when it's gossip. So there you have it. That is how we all started referring to gossip as spilling the tea. So, what does this have to do with the drink of the week? Well, the other day I was at trader Joe's and they have a shelf of Lucy's cans and bottles that have been separated from their six pack or four back and are being sold as a single item. I call them loosies. So I picked up a Lucy of something I had never tried before. I was brew boozy in botanicals. It's exactly what it sounds like. It's hard tea. The one I picked up was English breakfast tea with lemon and line. If you like tea and booze, you'll probably like this they're made from all natural ingredients and are vegan and all that jazz. So call up some friends. And even if you don't spill the tea, you can sip on it and enjoy it together. All right, fam it's that time in the episode where I ask you to please review the podcast on iTunes, it really does make a huge difference in helping to grow this podcast. So pretty, please take a moment to review and subscribe and share with your friends. Until next week. Cheers.